The podcast returns after a summer of discontent. Joining Ben for this edition is Ted Nordhaus, chairman and co-founder with Michael Shellenberger of the Breakthrough Institute, "a paradigm-shifting think tank" founded in Oakland in 2003 with the goal of "modernizing liberal thought for the 21st Century."

Nordhaus and Shellenberger are co-authors of "Break through: Why We Can't Leave Saving the Planet to Environmentalists," published 2007 and winner of the 2008 Green Book Award.

And most recently, Nordhaus and Shellenberger have launched the Breakthrough Journal, a new quarterly founded shortly after the death of Daniel Bell. The journal embraces Bell's view that, "A new public philosophy will have to be created in order that something we recognize as a liberal society may survive."

Joel was preparing for Hurricane Irene and was unable to join us for this episode.

(Also... "breakthroughing"? Obviously, it should be "breaking through." That's what a lousy two cups of coffee at 8:00 a.m. on a Saturday gets you!)

Among the questions we discuss:
• What does a 21st century liberalism look like?
• Should liberals rethink the "entitlement state"?
• Why do some environmentalists say one thing about renewable energy and do another?
• Can $500 billion buy a green economy?
• What sort of innovation should the United States pursue?
• What's the matter with cap and trade?
• Do conservatives and liberals have anything to talk about?
• And more!

Music heard in this podcast:
• "Break On Through," DJ Disse
• "Bein' Green," Andrew Bird
• "Electric Uncle Sam," Primus
• "To the Left, To the Right," T Model Ford
• "Riders On The Storm / Pink Solidism," Yonderboi

Programming note: We've changed the way we identify the episodes. This episode of "The Ben and Joel Podcast" is Vol. 4, No. 5. You might be wondering, whatever happened with Vol. 4, No. 1? It's a mystery, not unlike Stonehenge or double rainbows.