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Hmmm. I'm trying to decide whether stuff like this falls under the category of annoying rhetorical trope or disturbing trend? Here's Joe Klein blogging at Time about Fox News:
Let me be precise here: Fox News peddles a fair amount of hateful crap. Some of it borders on sedition. Much of it is flat out untrue.
But I don't understand why the White House would give such poisonous helium balloons as Glenn Beck and Sean Hannity the opportunity for still greater spasms of self-inflation by declaring war on Fox.
Yeah, yeah. Fox bad, blah blah blah. What's with the sedition crack? I noticed this theme popping up in April, when the tea parties started to take off. I made note of it again a couple of weeks ago when some guy named Matt Osborne posted a long and terribly earnest screed on treason and sedition at the Huffington Post.
Now Klein invokes sedition, almost as a throwaway line. What Fox News does, he says, "borders on" a notoriously subjective "crime" that has been wildly abused for partisan gain in this country. It could be Klein doesn't know what he's talking about, or it could be he'd really like to see Beck, Hannity, O'Reilly and Ailes hauled away in shackles, or it could be some combination of the two. All I know is, dissent isn't patriotic anymore.
"Scratch a civil libertarian, find a censor," I wrote about the Osborne post. I'm beginning to wonder if that should be the name of a new regular feature, alongside "Gun/Badge/Judgment" and "La Prensa said..." Am I wrong? Maybe I am. But surely Atrios was right.
Comments
Klein's just aping the Journolist talking points
He's not worth the pixels it takes to mock him. If this is what
Newsweek'sTime (Six of one, half-dozen of the other, eh? -BB) is paying good money to publish these days, little wonder it's cratering.Re: Aping the Journolist
Well, I'm not so sure about that, Rick. The mockery part, I mean. The piece is hardly worth mentioning* except for the sedition reference. I keep seeing it pop up in places, some cranky, some mainstream. I think maybe cataloging the references might be a worthwhile effort. With bonus mockery.
Oh, and Atrios is still right!
*Joel had suggested the White House versus Fox News business at the beginning of the week as a possible column topic. I didn't want to do it. As a matter of fact, I had started a post on Sunday about Jacob Weisberg's dumb essay in Newsweek (maybe that's what you were thinking of in your comment?), but I lost my momentum quickly and decided to set it aside. This was about as much as I could muster. I'm a little dismayed, though not altogether surprised, that the press has been so quiescent -- Jake Tapper excepted. But that's about it.
Time now, huh?
Thought he was at Newsweek. That's how much attention I give the slug.
You do make a larger point, though, about Tapper, that I posted about at Locker Room yesterday.
Have you noticed the reaction Tapper has received by calling out the White House? Jay Rosen (NYU), Greg Mitchell (Editor & Publisher) and other "respected" journalism analysts are giving Tapper a hard time -- challenging him for questioning The One. (You may have to scroll a bit; the posts were fresh Friday.)
Talk about being in the tank for Obama? Good grief.
'Seditious lies' and 'bilious nonsense'
I had missed this post at the Corner by Rich Lowry: "Joe Klein counsels White House restraint on Fox, but isn't the White House already restraining itself in not prosecuting Fox's sedition? Klein at one point says Fox 'borders on sedition,' but apparently its lies actually are 'seditious.' And Klein uses these words after stipulating that he's going to be 'precise.' Can someone tell me why the self-styled high-minded defenders of civil discourse in this country so often resort to such bilious nonsense?"
They don't like it.
Pure and simple.
Klien does not like that people refuse to believe him or his leaders, and say so. Vociferously at that. (did I spell that right?)
He does not like it, and he is lashing out at an organization he believes is lying to people.
He won't name a name, or give evidence.
Plus, I can only surmise, he's a racist now:
'Fox News spreads seditious lies to its demographic sliver of an audience...'
If he's referring to my racial group, I take offense. I am capable of sorting out lies from the truth. I guess he feels that whoever this 'demographic sliver' is, is not smart enough to do so. A common perception of the media elite.
Speaking of Liars, I got this email from my Congressman, Bill Foster (LD) about HR3200. In it, he states:
...The public plan would function in much the same way as private plans - it would be completely financed by participant premiums.
So here I have a Freakin' Liberal Democrat outright lying in print. IN PRINT. I don't need Fox News to tell me how the plan is to be financed. Its been reported everywhere. Subsided premiums for those that qualify. Taxes to provide 'start-up' money. He {censored} LIED IN PRINT and I'm not supposed to get upset? I'm not supposed to tell and show everyone I can that hes lying? Joe Klien can shove a {censored} up {censored, censored, .,..you get the picture}
But there's MORE from my Lying bastard of a congressman:
I support its creation to ensure competition but its future is solely dependent upon whether or not consumers choose it in the marketplace. If they do not, it will cease to exist.
How stupid do you have to be to 1) put this in print. 2) believe it.
Klein and sedition
Peter Wehner at Commentary's Contentions blog and (to a lesser extent) at NRO's The Corner blog has expended just about all the ones and zeroes that is necessary in exposing Joe Klein as a hack's hack for well over a year. I think the Power Line guys have also done some work on Klein's dishonesty, hackery and all-around bad-faith prose. Google some search terms, I'm sure it will pop up.
I find it almost funny, though, that Klein uses a nuclear missile term — SEDITION! — to make a point that requires a nerf ball. Some on the right, including Andy McCarthy at NRO, suggested that it was borderline seditious for The New York Times and Washington Post to expose state secrets in the form of war-fighting tools — such as the terrorist wiretaps, and the CIA "black sites," and the program to choke al-Qaida of its funding (the latter of which had not the whiff of civil liberties trouble) — while we were still fighting the war. The financial strategy exposure had arguably zero news value, and resulted in the end of a very effective anti-war program — the kind of "soft" strategy liberals are supposed to applaud.
Putting aside whether the cases above qualify as "sedition" (we're not gonna re-fight those battles here), non-Moonbats at least understand that the term "sedition" carries with it the context of undermining efforts by the United States to successfully fight a war against an enemy that wishes to destroy this country. (I'm sure there are historical exceptions to my presumption that Ben, a greater expert on such matters than this monkey, will note.)
But what has stirred Klein to use this word, usually reserved to apply to genuine enemies of the nation? Fox News airs programming — virtually alone — that is critical of the Obama administration's liberal domestic agenda. Specifically, he appears to be accusing Sean Hannity and Glenn Beck of sedition. The worst I've heard them say is call the likes of Van Jones a commie (which is how Jones described himself), call ACORN a hard-left criminal enterprise (which it is), draw attention to Anita Dunn's affection for Mao (which seems genuine) ... and state that they believe Obama (who has marinated his entire adult life with radical Marxists from academia) is not the centrist the likes of Joe Klein told us he was, but a ... well ... socialist or Marxist, take your pick.
Cannot Klein and the rest of his liberal media establishment travelers disagree with this assessment — condemn it, even — without accusing Hannity and Beck of sedition, of being an enemy of this country? Apparently not. Yet it's the right that is full of "wingnuts," writes Klein. And, just on a pure political analysis point, this bit by Klein is just precious:
The Obama team has not shown much "elegance" or skill for "intelligent governance" over its first 10 months. Instead, the White House has idiotically wholly handed over to Congress major legislative initiatives twice — the stimulus and health care — and has ended up with one unpopular boondoggle and a fledging unpopular disaster of a bill. That's quite the display of incompetence when you have full control of each house of Congress, members willing to do your specific bidding if asked/cajoled, and an electoral wind at your back. And at every turn, the White House has responded to even the slightest criticism with childishness and thuggish Chicago-style tactics.
Compare that to that dolt Bush, who got a major education bill passed with Ted Kennedy (of all people) and had the even, confident temperament to shrug off an adversarial press 100 times more critical of his agenda. (One of my favorite Bush stories was when he was in the limo driving past an exceptionally nasty protester and said to the shocked "civilian" riding along with him: "Not a fan.")
Klein also wrote this in that Time blog post:
Aha! Now we get to why Klein used the word "sedition." Forget the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. Obama's problem is that his "war" with Fox News is distracting him from pushing the news cycle even more in his favor. Good grief.
Patriotic Dissent
It kind of sucks when the shoe's on the other foot, doesn't it? Now you know what it's like to been a liberal for the last 9 years (I say 9 because I'm still being called a traitor for my opinions, even though the conservatives aren't in power).
This is all emblematic of the very serious problem of partisanship we have in this country. I wish we had a multi-party system.
Khabalox's treason
"I'm still being called a traitor for my opinions, even though the conservatives aren't in power."
By whom? Lau? That hardly counts...
RE: Treason
Haha, I suppose not. Does that extend to the rest of the tea baggers?
If I agree with Obama or other politicians on certain issues, and they are being called America Haters, doesn't that count? Maybe I'm hearing it wrong, but it sure sounds to me like a large portion of the right is saying that anyone in favor of a public option or a single-payer health care system is a Communist who wants to destroy America. Isn't that a traitor?
Almost right.
If someone follows and supports a man that seeks to 'fundamentally change' the foundation of the United States of America, undermine the Constitution, and destroy personal Liberty, then that person is something other than a Patriot of the USA.
To be a Traitor, you have to act in concert with a foreign interest. Jose Padilla is a traitor. John Walker is a traitor. The people who took pictures of CIA agents and fed them to the Gitmo lawyers are borderline traitors. All the people that worked for the Soviet Union in the US during the Cold War are Traitors.
If someone supports Socialist/Communist/Collective ideas and policies, then that person is a Socialist/Communist/Collectivist. Since these philosophies are the opposite of the ideas enshrined in the Constitution, the Socialist/Communist/Collectivist is in opposition to the foundation of the Nation.
If that someone does not like that fact, then he/she needs to look closely at themselves, not other people. And if their philosophy cannot be altered, then they should at least have the courage to be honest about being in opposition to the founding principals of the Nation, and tell us all why its better than what we have, and explain why it won't be a disaster this time.
====
A single payer system is a Collective system. Obama is a believer in Collectivism. He has said so himself.
No matter how many lines of legislation are in there now, once there is a taxpayer subsidized Public Option available, it will eventually become Single Payer. And once the Single Payer system is in place the country will slide to the same leftist society seen in England.
The Single Payer system will drain resources from all other government activities. The population that pays taxes to support it will constantly demand lower taxes and better care. Just like it does now.
And we will be defenseless aside from our Nuclear Arsenal. Just like all the other heavily socialist nations in Western Europe. None of which can field an army to protect themselves.
It wasn't me
I let all the Liberals everywhere say what they wanted to say.
I even applauded them sometimes.
I let them have their assassination fantasies. No words from me. None.
I let anyone and everyone alone.
Then came the election.
Then I spoke out.
Then I was attacked from all sides.
And now I'm active in politics.
How ya like me now?
Re: How ya like me now?
I like ya, Ron. But I really know you.
So perhaps I don't count. ;-)
Re: Patriotic Dissent
Well, I'm only slightly more worried that this administration will revive the Espionage and Sedition Acts, something the Bush Administration never did -- even though a handful conservatives, such as Gabriel Schoenfeld of Commentary, wished it had in the case of the New York Times and other media outlets that exposed secret counterterrorism programs. Nothing we've seen in the past decade has approached the abuses of power Americans routinely experienced during the first and second world wars.
A wager
I'll buy you a bottle of the bourbon of your choice (up to, say, $50) if Obama invokes the Espionage and Sedition Acts, and if he doesn't, you buy me a beer.
I'm not sure that's relevant. "Nothing OJ Simpson did approached the abuses human routinely experienced at the hands of Jeffery Dahmer." A greater evil does not excuse a lesser evil.
Re: A wager
I don't think I'll take that bet, but I'm happy to buy you a beer. I never believed that the Bush administration would revive prosecutions under the Espionage and Sedition Acts. I'm only slightly more worried that the Obama Administration will, simply because this White House and its partisans appear more comfortable with exercising state power along those lines. Slightly more than never is still very, very small, however. (Elsewhere I've asked, Who is the Charles Schenck in the war on terrorism?)
Where I strenuously disagree with you is with the relevance of the past eight years. The United States has a long and sordid history of suppressing political dissent, especially in wartime. That history is laced with every sort of rationale for putting down unpopular speech. But if you knew the history, you would have to acknowledge that what's exceptional about the past eight years is what the Bush Administration didn't do.
If you are only casually familiar with what I'm talking about, I recommend you read Geoffrey Stone's Perilous Times. I think he revised and republished that book as War and Liberty, but I haven't read it. (Joel and I have Stone on our wish list for podcast guests.) A book that I've lately read is an older volume called Opponents of War, 1917-1918, by Horace Paterson and Gilbert Fite. It's long out of print, but not difficult to find used. That book is a long chronicle of top-to-bottom abuses of free speech during the short U.S. engagement in World War I. Having read it, I am wholly contemptuous of the view that Bush was somehow uniquely repressive. He was... in the fevered imaginations of his opponents. But not in reality.
RE: Repression during wartime
"Perilous Times" sounds like an interesting read. I'm taking a break from non-fiction at the moment, but I'll add it to my list. My knowledge of US history is probably above average, but that's certainly not saying much.
I don't think Bush was "uniquely" repressive. What FDR did to Japanese-Americans during WWII was probably one of the greatest civil rights tragedies of the 20th century (with no disrespect meant to those that lost their lives fighting against racism in the South and elsewhere). My point was that just because there is a history of the President or Federal Government doing really bad things during "wartime" does not let Bush off the hook for doing less bad things after 9-11.
I would also take issue with considering the "War on Terror" a war, but that is at least partially a semantic argument. What we have been engaged in for the past 8 years is not a war like those we fought in the past, and in my view our greatest success in it have come from more traditional police work and detection rather than military action. Perhaps a similar dichotomy exists between "normal" war (meaning WWI, II, Korea, Vietnam) and the Cold War. The Cold War wasn't really a "war" in the traditional sense, and it wasn't won using traditional methods. Therefore, government repression of the populace during the Cold War or the War on Terror should not be viewed through the same lens as repression during WWI or WWII.